TangoCharlie
Jul 20, 11:28 AM
any talk of a quad core merom or mobile cpu?
No. I shouldn't think any laptop will be getting Kentsfield for a while....
No. I shouldn't think any laptop will be getting Kentsfield for a while....
shawnce
Aug 6, 02:45 PM
So to post my top bets for WWDC...
1) A much clearer roadmap for 64 bit support in Mac OS X. I believe they will outline full 64 bit support across all non-10.4 deprecated frameworks (I believe in the initial release of 10.5). Of course it will also fully support 32 bit applications run side by side with 64 bit applications.
2) Resolution Independent UI will be ready for main stream use with display products possible with in the next year or two (would love to be surprised with 150-200 DPI or so display of course).
3) Quartz 2D Extreme will be ready for main stream use along with some good news on the OpenGL front.
4) Full roll out of the unified user interface look and fell across all frameworks and Apple applications (at least most).
5) Improved Quartz API to allow for more advanced window styles and effects.
6) PowerMac replacement with Quad core model... a true workstation class system (likely similar enclosure to what we have now in the PMG5).
... gotta go.
1) A much clearer roadmap for 64 bit support in Mac OS X. I believe they will outline full 64 bit support across all non-10.4 deprecated frameworks (I believe in the initial release of 10.5). Of course it will also fully support 32 bit applications run side by side with 64 bit applications.
2) Resolution Independent UI will be ready for main stream use with display products possible with in the next year or two (would love to be surprised with 150-200 DPI or so display of course).
3) Quartz 2D Extreme will be ready for main stream use along with some good news on the OpenGL front.
4) Full roll out of the unified user interface look and fell across all frameworks and Apple applications (at least most).
5) Improved Quartz API to allow for more advanced window styles and effects.
6) PowerMac replacement with Quad core model... a true workstation class system (likely similar enclosure to what we have now in the PMG5).
... gotta go.
Dan==
Jul 27, 02:00 PM
The Mac name will never work! It's just too generic. And Apple must be suicidal if they keep a Core Solo in the Mini. The Core Solo will NOT be priced dropped and offers very poor value for money compared to a low-end Merom or mid-range Yonah (after price drop).
I can't say much about the name. I'm not the first to offer it. But nothing else comes to mind that seems to fit well.
For the Mini, I'd much rather see a Duo in the bottom of line unit, but let's face it, there's a lot of clamouring for the return of a sub $500 dollar unit, and a Core 2 Duo won't be in it, at least not in the next 6 months anyway. I'd personally like to see a $499 unit with a Core 2 Yonah, but suspect a Solo is all that will be affordable. For the rest of the Mini's, we should see 2MB cache Merom's. They're gonna be the same prices!
It's true, I haven't seen any price cuts in print for the Solo, but they simply can't be kept the same (when the other processors start shipping). But, true, this is an assumption.
Pretty cool, but it needs a real name, MAC won't cut it. Maybe Mac Express?
And it wouldn't have FW800 or a second optical slot. Probably a second HD slot instead. And I'd guess it would be more of a pizza box enclosure, but that's wild speculation. Your price is probably way too low, too.
Thanks!
I can't figure out why it wouldn't have a 2nd slot or FW800. They're both cheap enough to add. The only problem is the 2nd slot adds some height, but not that much. This unit would be less than 5" tall. And anyway, how do you backup your CD's? What a pain to go to the HD first! Adding another slot for a HD would be great, but I think that'll be one of the differentiators with the Pro. (Hey, maybe one or the other.)
As far the price goes, why does someone always have to resist? At this price there is plenty more profit here than the Mini.
Here's what I wrote in a thread over at 123macmini.com
http://www.123macmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6896&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
However, these prices are, I think, pretty doable. They're based largely on what Apple already sells the Mini for. That cheaper Conroe processor is just about the same price as the Core Solo in the $600 Mini right now! (Well, when it was introduced, anyway.) 3.5" 160MB SATA drives are roughly the same price as 2.5" 60GB SATA drives, separate graphics are < $50, and I suspect that system slots, fans, FW800, and other interfaces wouldn't add more than $100 to the price of the system. (Think +$50 in profits over the Mini.)
That was before I included a number of things, including extra RAM, and a mouse/keyboard in the base model, and bumped the price $40. Also, the cheaper Conroe came out at $185 instead of $210 as was being considered.
I think a box like this at $999 would have $100 to $150 more profit than the Mini!
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I can't say much about the name. I'm not the first to offer it. But nothing else comes to mind that seems to fit well.
For the Mini, I'd much rather see a Duo in the bottom of line unit, but let's face it, there's a lot of clamouring for the return of a sub $500 dollar unit, and a Core 2 Duo won't be in it, at least not in the next 6 months anyway. I'd personally like to see a $499 unit with a Core 2 Yonah, but suspect a Solo is all that will be affordable. For the rest of the Mini's, we should see 2MB cache Merom's. They're gonna be the same prices!
It's true, I haven't seen any price cuts in print for the Solo, but they simply can't be kept the same (when the other processors start shipping). But, true, this is an assumption.
Pretty cool, but it needs a real name, MAC won't cut it. Maybe Mac Express?
And it wouldn't have FW800 or a second optical slot. Probably a second HD slot instead. And I'd guess it would be more of a pizza box enclosure, but that's wild speculation. Your price is probably way too low, too.
Thanks!
I can't figure out why it wouldn't have a 2nd slot or FW800. They're both cheap enough to add. The only problem is the 2nd slot adds some height, but not that much. This unit would be less than 5" tall. And anyway, how do you backup your CD's? What a pain to go to the HD first! Adding another slot for a HD would be great, but I think that'll be one of the differentiators with the Pro. (Hey, maybe one or the other.)
As far the price goes, why does someone always have to resist? At this price there is plenty more profit here than the Mini.
Here's what I wrote in a thread over at 123macmini.com
http://www.123macmini.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6896&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
However, these prices are, I think, pretty doable. They're based largely on what Apple already sells the Mini for. That cheaper Conroe processor is just about the same price as the Core Solo in the $600 Mini right now! (Well, when it was introduced, anyway.) 3.5" 160MB SATA drives are roughly the same price as 2.5" 60GB SATA drives, separate graphics are < $50, and I suspect that system slots, fans, FW800, and other interfaces wouldn't add more than $100 to the price of the system. (Think +$50 in profits over the Mini.)
That was before I included a number of things, including extra RAM, and a mouse/keyboard in the base model, and bumped the price $40. Also, the cheaper Conroe came out at $185 instead of $210 as was being considered.
I think a box like this at $999 would have $100 to $150 more profit than the Mini!
tyroja00
Sep 19, 12:48 AM
Is that irony?
I'm also a student, and I don't think I could wait any longer than a month for these long-overdue MacBook Pros to ship... so a possible late November arrival is worrying to say the least.
I'll tell you what irony is...spending all your time making commercials that tout your products cutting edge over the lame PC's while steadily showing how truly behind you really are.
Try concentrating on the products instead of the gimmicks...
As for me, they have 2 more weeks of my patience before I revert back to my PC days. I'm tired of getting made fun of by my PC Geek friends while I play on my outdated G4 PB.
I'm beginning to believe my friends when they say that Apple pats their own backs for crap that PC makers created a year ago.
I'm also a student, and I don't think I could wait any longer than a month for these long-overdue MacBook Pros to ship... so a possible late November arrival is worrying to say the least.
I'll tell you what irony is...spending all your time making commercials that tout your products cutting edge over the lame PC's while steadily showing how truly behind you really are.
Try concentrating on the products instead of the gimmicks...
As for me, they have 2 more weeks of my patience before I revert back to my PC days. I'm tired of getting made fun of by my PC Geek friends while I play on my outdated G4 PB.
I'm beginning to believe my friends when they say that Apple pats their own backs for crap that PC makers created a year ago.
dpMacsmith
Jul 20, 09:28 AM
You realize there are probably only four people on this board who are old enough to get that joke, right?
I even had a client that was using one until about a month ago. The hard drive died. But, that Quadra just kept going and going and going.
I even had a client that was using one until about a month ago. The hard drive died. But, that Quadra just kept going and going and going.
ArchaicRevival
Apr 6, 02:10 PM
Epic. Fail.
DavidLeblond
Jul 27, 11:24 AM
Considering some of the rumors I'm thinking all the marbles would be:
MacPro
MBP, MB, iMac, Mini processor update
Leopard Preview
iTunes Movie Store
Larger capacity nanos
True Video iPod
So, you're right. Not a chance we're getting all of that (one can only dream).
MacPro
MBP, iMac processor update
Leopard Preview
I think those are the most likely marbles.
MacPro
MBP, MB, iMac, Mini processor update
Leopard Preview
iTunes Movie Store
Larger capacity nanos
True Video iPod
So, you're right. Not a chance we're getting all of that (one can only dream).
MacPro
MBP, iMac processor update
Leopard Preview
I think those are the most likely marbles.
Multimedia
Jul 29, 12:24 AM
I recall someone here recently reiterating the point that Merom should not use less power than Yonah, but accomplish 20% more work. That was my understanding.
Now the claim is being made that a Core 2 Duo Notebook can get longer battery life than a "previous model" notebook, up to 5 hours.
Video: Long-lasting Intel Core 2 Duo notebooks (http://news.com.com/1606-2_3-6100051.html?part=rss&tag=6100051&subj=news)Love this news. Just what I was expecting and one of the main reasons to have waited for Core 2 Duo mobile Macs. :)
Now the claim is being made that a Core 2 Duo Notebook can get longer battery life than a "previous model" notebook, up to 5 hours.
Video: Long-lasting Intel Core 2 Duo notebooks (http://news.com.com/1606-2_3-6100051.html?part=rss&tag=6100051&subj=news)Love this news. Just what I was expecting and one of the main reasons to have waited for Core 2 Duo mobile Macs. :)
QCassidy352
Jul 14, 02:38 PM
I'd like something upgradeable, where I could replace/upgrade HDDs, optical drives, and most importantly the display - yet a PowerMac is overkill for my needs. It sure would be nice to see, but I doubt Apple will do it... :cool:
I doubt they'll do it too. For some reason this idea has come up over and over again during the last few weeks, and I'll continue to say what I've been saying - I don't see why apple would do that. It's a very appealing idea for a lot of MR folks because a lot of us are knowledgable users but not really professionals. But beyond that group, which is prevalent at MR but fairly rare in the real world, I don't see the appeal.
Also, think about what apple would be doing with such a machine - selling you a low cost, low margin mac that you could nonetheless upgrade with 3rd party components for years. Meaning that apple doesn't make a lot off you up front and doesn't get you coming back again for 5-ish years. Great for you, not so great for them. Whereas if they sell you a mac pro, they make a killing up front, so it's ok if you keep it for years, and if they sell you anything else you'll be back a lot sooner.
I doubt they'll do it too. For some reason this idea has come up over and over again during the last few weeks, and I'll continue to say what I've been saying - I don't see why apple would do that. It's a very appealing idea for a lot of MR folks because a lot of us are knowledgable users but not really professionals. But beyond that group, which is prevalent at MR but fairly rare in the real world, I don't see the appeal.
Also, think about what apple would be doing with such a machine - selling you a low cost, low margin mac that you could nonetheless upgrade with 3rd party components for years. Meaning that apple doesn't make a lot off you up front and doesn't get you coming back again for 5-ish years. Great for you, not so great for them. Whereas if they sell you a mac pro, they make a killing up front, so it's ok if you keep it for years, and if they sell you anything else you'll be back a lot sooner.
k2k koos
Nov 28, 07:11 PM
What on earth are these people at music studio's thinking!!! Did they get royalties for every stereo sold? NO, so neither should they get anything for iPod or any hardware sales. Only for the products THEY supply, should they get money, being the music and movies/ video's, in other words the content.
This is typical behaviour of music studio's and I sincerely hope that Apple will not budge, nor should any other company. Of course MS is eager to pay as they need their Zune to succeed, and Universal is riding along for a slice of the pie, but who will loose out in the end is the consumer, as these royalties are eventually going to get calculated such that we will pay them......
We should all start protesting all record companies to clean up their act, in the mean time, the general consumer should to, copying of music is stealing, the prices on iTunes are fair and reasonable, so lets be nice and buy them properly, and the record companies can then make sure there is more for us to buy (some real refreshing new music would be nice, instead of all this "X factor, American idol, etc etc manufactured stuff....) , and not just fill their pockets as they are trying to do all the time
This is typical behaviour of music studio's and I sincerely hope that Apple will not budge, nor should any other company. Of course MS is eager to pay as they need their Zune to succeed, and Universal is riding along for a slice of the pie, but who will loose out in the end is the consumer, as these royalties are eventually going to get calculated such that we will pay them......
We should all start protesting all record companies to clean up their act, in the mean time, the general consumer should to, copying of music is stealing, the prices on iTunes are fair and reasonable, so lets be nice and buy them properly, and the record companies can then make sure there is more for us to buy (some real refreshing new music would be nice, instead of all this "X factor, American idol, etc etc manufactured stuff....) , and not just fill their pockets as they are trying to do all the time
e�Studios
Dec 9, 05:12 PM
I love racing my VW Bus. I also love racing the Vauxhall Tigra, which has about 96hp iirc. If all you want to do it buy an F1 and drive as quickly as possible dont even bother looking in GT5's direction. I get bored when i get to the faster races because you get stuck with the same dull cars every game. Woohoo, lets all buy a 458 Italia, F1, or Murcielago... :rolleyes:
I like the early races where i can tune up a Cappucino and get at most 200hp out of it.
GT5 is a game for people who love cars. Not people who only love fast cars. People who love all cars.
I'm sure you'd be happy if everyone started with a Zonda in their garage, but for people who like to drive something fresh and fun the exhaustive list in GT5 is perfect.
+1, as a car enthusiast I love GT and how its laid out. If all I wanted were the fastest cars I would play an arcade racer, its the fun in getting a car and tuning it the way you want it tuned and for how you drive it that appeals to me in GT. The car list comes secondary in my opinion, while yes it does matter to a certain degree its not the end all be all to a simulation game.
I am having a great time with GT5, overall its the game I expected and the game I have loved for so many years. The only one gripe I have is they took away the brake mods. You can fine tune the brake balance controller which is great, but it would have been nice to have upgrades in that category.
I like the early races where i can tune up a Cappucino and get at most 200hp out of it.
GT5 is a game for people who love cars. Not people who only love fast cars. People who love all cars.
I'm sure you'd be happy if everyone started with a Zonda in their garage, but for people who like to drive something fresh and fun the exhaustive list in GT5 is perfect.
+1, as a car enthusiast I love GT and how its laid out. If all I wanted were the fastest cars I would play an arcade racer, its the fun in getting a car and tuning it the way you want it tuned and for how you drive it that appeals to me in GT. The car list comes secondary in my opinion, while yes it does matter to a certain degree its not the end all be all to a simulation game.
I am having a great time with GT5, overall its the game I expected and the game I have loved for so many years. The only one gripe I have is they took away the brake mods. You can fine tune the brake balance controller which is great, but it would have been nice to have upgrades in that category.
reden
Apr 6, 03:14 PM
You list ONE issue with the iPad, that it looks too much like the iPhone, and then go on to a laundry list of issues on the Xoom that culminates in a tech support call and THAT is your preferred device?
Rock on winner. I have a bridge I want to sell you.
This guy, lol. I removed my comment because I'd waste my time with you. :):):)
Rock on winner. I have a bridge I want to sell you.
This guy, lol. I removed my comment because I'd waste my time with you. :):):)
hyperpasta
Aug 5, 04:44 PM
So, all in all, what's new? I don't know, but can't wait to see it on Monday.
Here are some rumors I've heard, but don't feel like linking to. Check with Google if you want.
*BitTorrent - Integrated into Leopard as a core technology, much like Spotlight. Used in Software Update and a new version of Safari.
*iChat Phone - Call numbers through iChat as part of .Mac... I guess you could make a conference with a combination of multiple phone numbers/iChatters.
*Maps - A new application designed to compete with Google Earth, but of course be much, much snazzier. Apparently, the next MBP would include a GPS chip so that you could see a "You Are Here" on the map.
Here are some rumors I've heard, but don't feel like linking to. Check with Google if you want.
*BitTorrent - Integrated into Leopard as a core technology, much like Spotlight. Used in Software Update and a new version of Safari.
*iChat Phone - Call numbers through iChat as part of .Mac... I guess you could make a conference with a combination of multiple phone numbers/iChatters.
*Maps - A new application designed to compete with Google Earth, but of course be much, much snazzier. Apparently, the next MBP would include a GPS chip so that you could see a "You Are Here" on the map.
EagerDragon
Aug 25, 07:40 PM
I was planning to buy a .mac account for e-mail , blogs through iWeb, web pages etc. I am more aware now about it.
I have .mac now for several years, and I am still wondering why I re-subscribe. Maybe Im lazy. I must be. Don't get it. Need a Gmail invite?????
I have .mac now for several years, and I am still wondering why I re-subscribe. Maybe Im lazy. I must be. Don't get it. Need a Gmail invite?????
snouter
Apr 6, 11:09 AM
Umm... You do realise clock speed is not everything don't you?
I hope you don't think a C2D is better then a SB Core i5
True.
Clock for clock the Arrandales are faster than C2D and Sandy Bridge is clock for clock faster than the Arrandales.
So a 1.4 Sandy Bridge will be quite a bit faster than than a 1.4 C2D within the same power envelope.
I hope you don't think a C2D is better then a SB Core i5
True.
Clock for clock the Arrandales are faster than C2D and Sandy Bridge is clock for clock faster than the Arrandales.
So a 1.4 Sandy Bridge will be quite a bit faster than than a 1.4 C2D within the same power envelope.
CaoCao
Feb 28, 08:25 PM
It matters that you describe it as fornication.
What has this dubious claim to do with anything? :confused:
No it doesn't, not when people brag about how much they sleep around
Your link supports the idea that Greek society supported pederasty. If they have such a failing what is to say they don't have other failings
He's trying to equate in our minds homosexuality, rape, and pedophilia.
rape and paedophilia both involve lack of consent. Although paedophilia has to do with that the mind is attracted to pre-pubescent children in the same way that homosexuality causes attraction to the same sex. Both cases are untreatable.
What has this dubious claim to do with anything? :confused:
No it doesn't, not when people brag about how much they sleep around
Your link supports the idea that Greek society supported pederasty. If they have such a failing what is to say they don't have other failings
He's trying to equate in our minds homosexuality, rape, and pedophilia.
rape and paedophilia both involve lack of consent. Although paedophilia has to do with that the mind is attracted to pre-pubescent children in the same way that homosexuality causes attraction to the same sex. Both cases are untreatable.
Simiber
Apr 25, 01:54 PM
I'm not from the US so if someone with some legal background over there could point out to me how this would work..? Where I'm from you have to have suffered damages in order to sue someone, otherwise a government regulator would just impose a fine on the company or require them to stop what they are doing..? How have these people (who are suing apple) suffered losses as a result of this apparent spying technology..?
patrick0brien
Jul 20, 12:28 PM
There might be rare exceptions in the professinal area and of course it makes lots of sense for a server, but for a single user machine?
-satty
I just kicked of a 6450 frame render on Gabriel (see specs below). According to the average frame time, it'll take until August 4th to complete.
I'd reeeeeally like this alleged machine.
-satty
I just kicked of a 6450 frame render on Gabriel (see specs below). According to the average frame time, it'll take until August 4th to complete.
I'd reeeeeally like this alleged machine.
SiliconAddict
Aug 6, 03:06 AM
I'm hoping for a major bombshell of an announcement when it comes to Leopard. I've said it before and I will say it again - the gap between Windows and OS X will narrow with Vista. Yes we are all aware that Vista in all likelihood is going to be just as buggy as 10.0 when it was released. But keep in mind that this will probably be the last version of OS X to be released for the next 18+ months. (When its all said and done its prob going to be close to 2 years with 10.4->10.5) That time frame is more then enough time for MS to release SP1 and SP2 which WILL happen once its released, the general public (a.k.a Beta testers.) get their hands on it, and MS starts getting those crash reports.
Leopard needs to go up against MS's next generation and to be honest while 10.4 vs. XP is a non contest the same can't be said between 10.4 and Vista. That gap is narrowed. Apple needs to do something more then Expose, Spotlight, Dashboard, icon changes, and migrating more and more of their graphic subsystem onto the video card. All of those changes are good and worthy additions to OS X but it's incremental. It's Apple doing cleanup from the days of 10.0. It's Apple resting on their laurels. This simply can't happen anymore. The gap between Windows and OS X NEEDS to widen again. If it doesn't the "its good enough" mentality that many PC users have will only increase because like it or not Vista IS a major revamp of Windows under the hood. Yes a revamp with many key missing technologies but a revamp of the core OS nonetheless.
We need something that was as revolutionary as 9.x ->10.0. While I'm under no illusions that Apple isn't ready to revamp the entire GUI they HAVE to have been working on new stuff over the last 6 years. There has to be something that almost done baking in the bowels of Cupertino that can make it into 10.5.
PS- Please Apple; FTFF.
Leopard needs to go up against MS's next generation and to be honest while 10.4 vs. XP is a non contest the same can't be said between 10.4 and Vista. That gap is narrowed. Apple needs to do something more then Expose, Spotlight, Dashboard, icon changes, and migrating more and more of their graphic subsystem onto the video card. All of those changes are good and worthy additions to OS X but it's incremental. It's Apple doing cleanup from the days of 10.0. It's Apple resting on their laurels. This simply can't happen anymore. The gap between Windows and OS X NEEDS to widen again. If it doesn't the "its good enough" mentality that many PC users have will only increase because like it or not Vista IS a major revamp of Windows under the hood. Yes a revamp with many key missing technologies but a revamp of the core OS nonetheless.
We need something that was as revolutionary as 9.x ->10.0. While I'm under no illusions that Apple isn't ready to revamp the entire GUI they HAVE to have been working on new stuff over the last 6 years. There has to be something that almost done baking in the bowels of Cupertino that can make it into 10.5.
PS- Please Apple; FTFF.
amac4me
Jul 14, 07:26 PM
WWDC ... it's getting closer ... can't wait to see what's announced. Oh yeah ... we'll see the preview of Leopard too.
Bring it on Steve :D
Bring it on Steve :D
obeygiant
Apr 27, 09:51 AM
I was once proud of the Trump Tower here in Chicago. Now I'd like to see it burned to the ground.
What are you, a terrorist? lol
What are you, a terrorist? lol
DJMastaWes
Aug 26, 08:28 PM
On the day that the MBP's with merom go on sale, I wonder WHAT TIME Apples website will change and display the new products? :confused:
Probebly 10:00AM - 11:00AM Pacific time.
Probebly 10:00AM - 11:00AM Pacific time.
plinden
Sep 12, 11:00 AM
The folks over at Anandtech have dropped engineering samples of the quad core cloverton into a Mac Pro - http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2832&p=6
and it worked ... all eight cores were recognised.
The rest of the article was interesting too.
and it worked ... all eight cores were recognised.
The rest of the article was interesting too.
CaoCao
Mar 4, 01:46 PM
This is true because you say it's true?
Nope, you just want to make sure that we can't have access to the same protections for our families that you do. How silly of me to want that.
Not at all. Gay people raise kids just as well as straight people- that's been proven. And we do have families. There is no risk of destroying society. The question is valid. Answer it.
A bit of delay in my response because I had to look it up, but thanks for letting us have this right for 7 years now..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Map_of_US_sodomy_laws.svg/400px-Map_of_US_sodomy_laws.svg.png
Red = Sodomy Laws struck down by the US Supreme Court in 2003
And yet I doubt Macaroony sees opposite-sex attractions as immoral or placing oneself in grave danger. I know what your religious beliefs tell you, and it is your right to follow those as explicitly as you are legally able. But why does that have to impact the rest of the world when you know many of them share different beliefs and have different experiences?
Personally, I think people who believe in gods are weak-minded fools. But I would never support a law that mandated atheism or banned religious gatherings. Because these religious things, while they are not in line with my worldview, do not impact my way of life directly, and allow people to live how they think they need to, not how I think they need to.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and venture a guess that you don't have a non-biased fact source for a retarded statement like that. :rolleyes:
CaoCao, could you please elaborate as to how gays could cause the collapse of society? I keep hearing that but I don't understand the sentiment behind it. And please, do not skirt around the answer, I always try to be as clear as day with mine.
The only explanation I can come up with as to why you would see being gay and giving gays the same civil rights as the collapse of society is that it differs so much from your worldview, it causes your world to collapse to the point where you feel nothing but uncomfortable to live in such a society. In other words; if gays are treated equal under every law under the sun, your society would collapse.
I often hear that same-sex marriage devalues marriage and threatens those that are already married. I wonder why and how. I doubt that your straight neighbor's happy marriage affects you at all unless you're so jealous, you want their marriage to be annulled - a happy same-sex couple must be killing you inside. I have said it here and in another thread before, marriage is nothing but a contract between two members of two families and the state to secure their fortune and legacy. Every attorney will tell you the same.
I have to say, it's very exhausting coming up with a defense convincing enough for those that don't seem to follow the world by logic. I'm glad I'm not a lawyer because if law is like that all the time, I'd rather give up on it and live in exile.
Logic is my source. Society needs people, no people means no society. If there were no more babies society would eventually collapse.
Source?
:rolleyes:
Nope, you just want to make sure that we can't have access to the same protections for our families that you do. How silly of me to want that.
Not at all. Gay people raise kids just as well as straight people- that's been proven. And we do have families. There is no risk of destroying society. The question is valid. Answer it.
A bit of delay in my response because I had to look it up, but thanks for letting us have this right for 7 years now..
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Map_of_US_sodomy_laws.svg/400px-Map_of_US_sodomy_laws.svg.png
Red = Sodomy Laws struck down by the US Supreme Court in 2003
And yet I doubt Macaroony sees opposite-sex attractions as immoral or placing oneself in grave danger. I know what your religious beliefs tell you, and it is your right to follow those as explicitly as you are legally able. But why does that have to impact the rest of the world when you know many of them share different beliefs and have different experiences?
Personally, I think people who believe in gods are weak-minded fools. But I would never support a law that mandated atheism or banned religious gatherings. Because these religious things, while they are not in line with my worldview, do not impact my way of life directly, and allow people to live how they think they need to, not how I think they need to.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and venture a guess that you don't have a non-biased fact source for a retarded statement like that. :rolleyes:
CaoCao, could you please elaborate as to how gays could cause the collapse of society? I keep hearing that but I don't understand the sentiment behind it. And please, do not skirt around the answer, I always try to be as clear as day with mine.
The only explanation I can come up with as to why you would see being gay and giving gays the same civil rights as the collapse of society is that it differs so much from your worldview, it causes your world to collapse to the point where you feel nothing but uncomfortable to live in such a society. In other words; if gays are treated equal under every law under the sun, your society would collapse.
I often hear that same-sex marriage devalues marriage and threatens those that are already married. I wonder why and how. I doubt that your straight neighbor's happy marriage affects you at all unless you're so jealous, you want their marriage to be annulled - a happy same-sex couple must be killing you inside. I have said it here and in another thread before, marriage is nothing but a contract between two members of two families and the state to secure their fortune and legacy. Every attorney will tell you the same.
I have to say, it's very exhausting coming up with a defense convincing enough for those that don't seem to follow the world by logic. I'm glad I'm not a lawyer because if law is like that all the time, I'd rather give up on it and live in exile.
Logic is my source. Society needs people, no people means no society. If there were no more babies society would eventually collapse.
Source?
:rolleyes: