AvSRoCkCO1067
Jul 19, 05:00 PM
The great numbers shown today just prove that this is the perfect moment to bury MS once and for all in the OS war...OS X is by far the best system, and Longsight is still more than 6 months away...Microsoft is doomed.
Yeah....no....
Aren't there still more people using Windows Me/Windows 98/Windows 95 than all Mac OS users...??? People don't upgrade quickly - it would be dozens of years before Apple could even have, say, a 25% marketshare.
Yeah....no....
Aren't there still more people using Windows Me/Windows 98/Windows 95 than all Mac OS users...??? People don't upgrade quickly - it would be dozens of years before Apple could even have, say, a 25% marketshare.
miloblithe
Aug 31, 02:43 PM
Well......you know what I mean ;)
I do, but I also love to be an ass. :)
I think Apple would enjoy being able to say "all superdrive, all 64-bit, all dual core..."
And we'd enjoy hearing it. But Apple also has to gouge us for profit. It's a two way street.
I do, but I also love to be an ass. :)
I think Apple would enjoy being able to say "all superdrive, all 64-bit, all dual core..."
And we'd enjoy hearing it. But Apple also has to gouge us for profit. It's a two way street.
SactoGuy18
Apr 16, 09:41 PM
While I know how to drive a car with a manual shifter, here's a BIG problem nowadays: the quality of the shifter has really gone downhill in recent years. http://www.en.kolobok.us/smiles/big_standart/negative.gif
Unless you're driving a BMW, Honda or Porsche, gear shifters on modern cars either are too "notchy" or overly-vague in terms of finding a gear, and the result is not very pleasant, especially in city driving.
Besides, automatics and dual-clutch gearboxes--thanks to modern computer controls--have gotten really good in recent years. This is especially true with automatics that sport six to eight forward gears, which allows for a lot smoother automatic shifts between gears during acceleration. I've test-driven a 2011 US-market Hyundai Elantra saloon with Hyundai's own six-speed automatic and note how smooth the shifts are even during hard acceleration.
Unless you're driving a BMW, Honda or Porsche, gear shifters on modern cars either are too "notchy" or overly-vague in terms of finding a gear, and the result is not very pleasant, especially in city driving.
Besides, automatics and dual-clutch gearboxes--thanks to modern computer controls--have gotten really good in recent years. This is especially true with automatics that sport six to eight forward gears, which allows for a lot smoother automatic shifts between gears during acceleration. I've test-driven a 2011 US-market Hyundai Elantra saloon with Hyundai's own six-speed automatic and note how smooth the shifts are even during hard acceleration.
Krafty
Nov 26, 12:14 PM
For my Mac Mini: Seagate Momentus 7200.4 ST9500420AS 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache 2.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Notebook Hard Drive -Bare Drive
http://lulzimg.com/i9/c8073280.jpg
http://lulzimg.com/i9/c8073280.jpg
PeterQVenkman
Mar 25, 04:13 PM
That's bad ass!
aswitcher
Aug 25, 09:25 AM
There are no single core Core 2 processors. That's why. 1.66GHz Core 2 Duo is the bottom of the line. Cost Apple same they paid for Solo 1.5GHz Yonah.
Yeah I thought mini would go Core 2 last. But maybe Apple is getting such a huge shipment that they can go Core 2 across the board right away. I don't know. Hope Springs Eternal. :p
Arent Core 2s being reported in shortage by intel suppliers?
Yeah I thought mini would go Core 2 last. But maybe Apple is getting such a huge shipment that they can go Core 2 across the board right away. I don't know. Hope Springs Eternal. :p
Arent Core 2s being reported in shortage by intel suppliers?
JackSYi
Oct 23, 05:01 PM
Tuesday is rapidly approaching. However, for some of us, the time and space continum is slightly different than the rest. Tuesday will come and some of us will sit in front of our computers waiting in anticipation for that Apple store to go down and "be right back". We will feel like little children waiting in line for Disneyland, waiting to cross that magical gate.
What?!
:)
Just don't stay up all night waiting. (I want to be the first person to order the damned thing).
What?!
:)
Just don't stay up all night waiting. (I want to be the first person to order the damned thing).
Tonsko
Jan 7, 01:51 PM
That a Remus I spy there? I remember choosing between that and SuperSprint for my old Edition 1 G60. I went for SS in the end as the steel was different and gave a different note.
nagromme
Jun 22, 12:30 PM
iOS and Mac OS will merge. Very slowly over the years. Eventually, I see OS X dying out and becoming a comapatibility mode like Classic, as iOS (which is still OS X at heart anyway) becomes the mainstream OS. But this will take a LONG time.
As that happens, I expect Apple desktops will evolve into flat screens that lie on the surface in front of you—maybe slanted a bit, but not vertical (though they could tilt up for passive movie viewing). This sounds great to me! I can imagine Photoshop etc. with a whole new UI, and a future iOS adapted to big screens by allowing multiple apps on-screen at once. (And keyboards will probably be standard—these are production machines used for mass content creation, and with a need for shortcuts. But mice will be optional, since only “old” Mac software will use them.)
These machines will be like pro/prosumer versions of the iPad, used for totally different purposes. Eventually. 5 years? Will they even be called Macs? (I suspect they will be—and fair enough, if they have an OS X compatibility mode.)
In the meantime, I don’t see conventional iMacs with touchscreens. Touch on a vertical surface is a harmless gimmick at best (ask HP). And they give you Popeye Arm Syndrome!
http://myexercise4fitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/popeye.jpg
That leaked desktop touchpad, though, sounds great—I hope it ships!
As that happens, I expect Apple desktops will evolve into flat screens that lie on the surface in front of you—maybe slanted a bit, but not vertical (though they could tilt up for passive movie viewing). This sounds great to me! I can imagine Photoshop etc. with a whole new UI, and a future iOS adapted to big screens by allowing multiple apps on-screen at once. (And keyboards will probably be standard—these are production machines used for mass content creation, and with a need for shortcuts. But mice will be optional, since only “old” Mac software will use them.)
These machines will be like pro/prosumer versions of the iPad, used for totally different purposes. Eventually. 5 years? Will they even be called Macs? (I suspect they will be—and fair enough, if they have an OS X compatibility mode.)
In the meantime, I don’t see conventional iMacs with touchscreens. Touch on a vertical surface is a harmless gimmick at best (ask HP). And they give you Popeye Arm Syndrome!
http://myexercise4fitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/popeye.jpg
That leaked desktop touchpad, though, sounds great—I hope it ships!
BC2009
Oct 25, 06:08 AM
Sorry, but EVERYTHING is politics. You cannot discuss economics and manufacturing without bumping into it.
I respectfully disagree. Politics to me is a bunch of idiots trying to sway my opinion with unbelievable arguments so they can garner my vote and maintain their little sphere of influence in government. Politics effects everything, but political arguments are generally a poor characterization of reality. In politics these days everything is demonized. People are polarized on one end of the extreme or the other. The day of bi-partisan compromise seems to be over.
Hence, I'd prefer it if folks saved their political debates for the threads in the political forum. I read this mostly to escape that garbage (i.e.: the unreasonably demonization of the half the population because of how they might feel about some social issue).
I have my own political views, and likely we agree on many things, we could rant forever on this forum -- but that's not what this forum is for and I'd hate for it to deteriorate into yet another place for such debates.
EDIT: Your remarks on my feelings on Communism are not correct. I feel very differently than you stated. But this is not the place to discuss that further. I doubt anybody who comes here cares.
I respectfully disagree. Politics to me is a bunch of idiots trying to sway my opinion with unbelievable arguments so they can garner my vote and maintain their little sphere of influence in government. Politics effects everything, but political arguments are generally a poor characterization of reality. In politics these days everything is demonized. People are polarized on one end of the extreme or the other. The day of bi-partisan compromise seems to be over.
Hence, I'd prefer it if folks saved their political debates for the threads in the political forum. I read this mostly to escape that garbage (i.e.: the unreasonably demonization of the half the population because of how they might feel about some social issue).
I have my own political views, and likely we agree on many things, we could rant forever on this forum -- but that's not what this forum is for and I'd hate for it to deteriorate into yet another place for such debates.
EDIT: Your remarks on my feelings on Communism are not correct. I feel very differently than you stated. But this is not the place to discuss that further. I doubt anybody who comes here cares.
pudrums
Nov 28, 08:06 AM
Custom-made gloves in black leather with cream-colored stitchings. I'll post a pic when I get them.
That-Is-Bull
Jan 12, 12:36 PM
I don't see the benefit of a MacBook Slim.
Can someone pursued me or tell me why it would be better then just having a MacBook?
Because it's too small for any power but it's too big for your pocket. Win-win.
Can someone pursued me or tell me why it would be better then just having a MacBook?
Because it's too small for any power but it's too big for your pocket. Win-win.
ingenious
Apr 7, 09:19 AM
really, this is what Ive been taking about...I think that most Mac users don't want to hear it
maybe thats because its not true and most mac articles are written by very wintel biased writers.
maybe thats because its not true and most mac articles are written by very wintel biased writers.
�algiris
May 3, 02:28 AM
First of all, this looks like this only works when you are in LaunchPad mode so there, it makes perfect sense. I truly doubt the press/hold/jiggle works in the Applications folder, where it would be very out-of-place.
Imagine that Apple did not put in the feature there in LaunchPad which is suppose to be iPad-like... people would come out of the woodwork to piss/moan about how Apple was lame to not unify the process with the press/hold/jiggle.
Secondly, this only works for Apps that have been downloaded from the App store,... this is probably implemented so that when you say YES, delete this, it will then give you an option to rate the App while simply deleting the App with a Command-Delete or a drag to the Trash would not invoke such a Rating option.
Thirdly, it's not like Apple is taking away the other options of trashing an App. Use the method that you're like and MYOB and STHU. Honestly.
50% of Mac buyers are new users so they're use to this from iPhones/iPads/iPods. Let them be comfortable. I've been on a Mac since 1995 but I realize that Apple needs to help switchers be comfortable. All the changes to Mac OS X that I've seen so far, I'm really looking forward. If you don't want 'em. Don't upgrade. Oh... and STHU.
Tell that to the whiners. All they do is whine. It's a great feature and LaunchPad looks like a handy feature as well. If someone doesn't like it's not intrusive, just don't use it.
Imagine that Apple did not put in the feature there in LaunchPad which is suppose to be iPad-like... people would come out of the woodwork to piss/moan about how Apple was lame to not unify the process with the press/hold/jiggle.
Secondly, this only works for Apps that have been downloaded from the App store,... this is probably implemented so that when you say YES, delete this, it will then give you an option to rate the App while simply deleting the App with a Command-Delete or a drag to the Trash would not invoke such a Rating option.
Thirdly, it's not like Apple is taking away the other options of trashing an App. Use the method that you're like and MYOB and STHU. Honestly.
50% of Mac buyers are new users so they're use to this from iPhones/iPads/iPods. Let them be comfortable. I've been on a Mac since 1995 but I realize that Apple needs to help switchers be comfortable. All the changes to Mac OS X that I've seen so far, I'm really looking forward. If you don't want 'em. Don't upgrade. Oh... and STHU.
Tell that to the whiners. All they do is whine. It's a great feature and LaunchPad looks like a handy feature as well. If someone doesn't like it's not intrusive, just don't use it.
KnightWRX
May 2, 05:28 PM
iOS style multitasking features (benefits) are indeed in Lion.
Applications written for Lion can "suspend and resume" without having to "save and close" documents. The reason the little light below running apps on the Dock was removed is that "running" is now more of a decision between the App and OS -- not so much the user. (APP - "Am I idle right now? Can I resume from this point very quickly? If so, I'll just suspend myself till the user or an event wakes me back up. No need to burn RAM or CPU, the user won't even notice I'm not here.)
There is no reason with modern computer architecture for humans to do memory management by getting involved with which programs are actually physically in memory/active. We have 7200rpm SATA3 or SSD drives, multicore processors with Gigahertz speeds, and Gigabytes of RAM...
The way we interact with Multitasking in Windows 7 and OS X Snow Leopard is based on the hardware limitations imposed by 640K RAM, 4.7 Megahertz single core processor, and Floppy Disks. Apple took the first brave step away from that with iOS. It's good to see it moving forward in Lion.
So you're saying we should go back to Mac OS Classic cooperative multi-tasking ?
Hello ?
The 80s called, they want their computing paradigms back. Cooperative multi-tasking makes sense on ressource limited architectures. Even the iPhone/iPad like devices are far from "ressource limited". We had pre-emptive multi-tasking on much less capable devices (think 386s with 8 MB of RAM).
Applications written for Lion can "suspend and resume" without having to "save and close" documents. The reason the little light below running apps on the Dock was removed is that "running" is now more of a decision between the App and OS -- not so much the user. (APP - "Am I idle right now? Can I resume from this point very quickly? If so, I'll just suspend myself till the user or an event wakes me back up. No need to burn RAM or CPU, the user won't even notice I'm not here.)
There is no reason with modern computer architecture for humans to do memory management by getting involved with which programs are actually physically in memory/active. We have 7200rpm SATA3 or SSD drives, multicore processors with Gigahertz speeds, and Gigabytes of RAM...
The way we interact with Multitasking in Windows 7 and OS X Snow Leopard is based on the hardware limitations imposed by 640K RAM, 4.7 Megahertz single core processor, and Floppy Disks. Apple took the first brave step away from that with iOS. It's good to see it moving forward in Lion.
So you're saying we should go back to Mac OS Classic cooperative multi-tasking ?
Hello ?
The 80s called, they want their computing paradigms back. Cooperative multi-tasking makes sense on ressource limited architectures. Even the iPhone/iPad like devices are far from "ressource limited". We had pre-emptive multi-tasking on much less capable devices (think 386s with 8 MB of RAM).
Ping Guo
Apr 21, 11:45 AM
If this were Google or M$ you apologists would be foaming at the mouth. Nice fallacious argument - just because we can be tracked in our cars with traffic cams, or GPS devices, etc, doesn't mean this, or those instances are legal.
This is clearly in violation of EU law, for those of you who are interested:
http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/information_society/l14012_en.htm
We should at least be given the choice to opt-out, and the purposes and disclosure policies should be clearly stated, not buried in a 30-page ToS.
This is clearly in violation of EU law, for those of you who are interested:
http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/information_society/l14012_en.htm
We should at least be given the choice to opt-out, and the purposes and disclosure policies should be clearly stated, not buried in a 30-page ToS.
a456
Sep 1, 02:19 PM
At WWDC, Apple mentioned one of Leopard's features - 64 bit application support. Let's fast forward to Leopard's release day and look at Apple's line. I'm guessing that all all their machines will have 64-bit processors, but surely the difference in processors used in the Macbook, Macbook Pro, the iMac, and the mini, surely can't be just speed, and all using the Merom? The iMac will have Conroe, maybe an E6600.
If the iMac had the Conroe and this is more powerful than the Merom wouldn't this continue to place the processing power of the consumer desktop above the power of the 'pro' laptop, which has been one of the problems for some time now? If they both had Merom at least they would be equal. Don't know about the Macbook and the Mini though, I guess the distinction is that they don't have separate graphics cards.
If the iMac had the Conroe and this is more powerful than the Merom wouldn't this continue to place the processing power of the consumer desktop above the power of the 'pro' laptop, which has been one of the problems for some time now? If they both had Merom at least they would be equal. Don't know about the Macbook and the Mini though, I guess the distinction is that they don't have separate graphics cards.
HecubusPro
Aug 24, 07:36 PM
nice one... was looking to buy a mini to 'integrate' into my CAR... might wait now, then pick up a core solo intel for cheap! hopefully....
http://www.kusnetz.net/prius/
I have a Prius, and when I saw this guy put a mac mini in his Prius, I nearly died with envy. I would love to do this, but I have feeling the cost/trouble would be way out of my realm, and I don't know that I would trust someone to void the warranty on my car.:)
Still it's a cool idea.
http://www.kusnetz.net/prius/
I have a Prius, and when I saw this guy put a mac mini in his Prius, I nearly died with envy. I would love to do this, but I have feeling the cost/trouble would be way out of my realm, and I don't know that I would trust someone to void the warranty on my car.:)
Still it's a cool idea.
milo
Sep 7, 08:01 AM
Personally, I wouldn't want to DL a large movie file without the option of being able to burn it to DVD so I can have that tangible hard copy that makes me feel safe and warm. Then I wouldn't have a problem deleting it off of my hard drive.
I don't think there's any question about that...it's just that you'd burn it to a data DVD and play it in computers with the DRM enabled, not on a DVD player. Backing up drm media isn't limited, just playing it back.
Hopefully someday we'll see real DVD burns allowed, but the way the studios are going I don't know how likey that is.
Unlike music, you rarely watch a movie twice.
I think you meant to say "*I* rarely watch a movie twice". You may not, but many people do, especially kids, who will be well covered by disney releases. It really just depends on the consumer and the movie, there's no question that millions of DVDs are sold.
There are a few issues with rentals. Besides DRM, they'd have to compete with netflix and similar companies, which would mean the price would have to be incredibly cheap, probably far less than the studios would be willing to go (don't forget, really the studios are setting prices, not apple). There's simply no way they could compete with netflix without losing money (assuming the studios even allowed it, which would never happen).
And for all the people who will be disappointed if apple can't compete with their piracy scheme? Give me a freaking break. :rolleyes:
The best option (besides a rental model, which we know is not going to happen) would be to release a media center (iTheatre, iHome, etc.) that has a 250GB or 500GB hard-drive. All the movies could be downloaded through the GUI on the TV!
But apple has an even better idea, just have an airport on your tv and stream the video from ANY computer in your house. WAY cheaper, and you're not wasting an expensive computer by having it sitting by the TV all day instead of using it for computer stuff.
But yes... paying for something that it can be accidentally DELETED from your harddrive is NOT cool...
So back it up, why would it be any different than the video and audio content apple already sells? Their current DRM hasn't been hacked yet, has it?
still think the prices are a little steep for things that can be watched on an ipod.
You won't just watch these on an ipod, apple will release a streaming solution for TVs along with the movie store.
Apple keeps track of all the songs you buy anyway, so it's my opinion that you should be able to just "get another copy" if you have already purchased a song.
But sending you files over and over costs apple money. Why don't you just back your files up?
HD or whatever you fancy, it's cool with me, but talking about quality, why are the iTunes songs still at that lousy 128 bitrate. I mean if they can do movies, nice quality (at least 256) songs are not that diffucult?
Because 128 is "good enough" for most listeners. The "good enough" point for movies is probably 480(i or p).
I don't think there's any question about that...it's just that you'd burn it to a data DVD and play it in computers with the DRM enabled, not on a DVD player. Backing up drm media isn't limited, just playing it back.
Hopefully someday we'll see real DVD burns allowed, but the way the studios are going I don't know how likey that is.
Unlike music, you rarely watch a movie twice.
I think you meant to say "*I* rarely watch a movie twice". You may not, but many people do, especially kids, who will be well covered by disney releases. It really just depends on the consumer and the movie, there's no question that millions of DVDs are sold.
There are a few issues with rentals. Besides DRM, they'd have to compete with netflix and similar companies, which would mean the price would have to be incredibly cheap, probably far less than the studios would be willing to go (don't forget, really the studios are setting prices, not apple). There's simply no way they could compete with netflix without losing money (assuming the studios even allowed it, which would never happen).
And for all the people who will be disappointed if apple can't compete with their piracy scheme? Give me a freaking break. :rolleyes:
The best option (besides a rental model, which we know is not going to happen) would be to release a media center (iTheatre, iHome, etc.) that has a 250GB or 500GB hard-drive. All the movies could be downloaded through the GUI on the TV!
But apple has an even better idea, just have an airport on your tv and stream the video from ANY computer in your house. WAY cheaper, and you're not wasting an expensive computer by having it sitting by the TV all day instead of using it for computer stuff.
But yes... paying for something that it can be accidentally DELETED from your harddrive is NOT cool...
So back it up, why would it be any different than the video and audio content apple already sells? Their current DRM hasn't been hacked yet, has it?
still think the prices are a little steep for things that can be watched on an ipod.
You won't just watch these on an ipod, apple will release a streaming solution for TVs along with the movie store.
Apple keeps track of all the songs you buy anyway, so it's my opinion that you should be able to just "get another copy" if you have already purchased a song.
But sending you files over and over costs apple money. Why don't you just back your files up?
HD or whatever you fancy, it's cool with me, but talking about quality, why are the iTunes songs still at that lousy 128 bitrate. I mean if they can do movies, nice quality (at least 256) songs are not that diffucult?
Because 128 is "good enough" for most listeners. The "good enough" point for movies is probably 480(i or p).
Multimedia
Sep 6, 10:40 AM
Please explain to me who would buy a mini and why?
I just don't get it when a imac is close in price with a monitor.
What am I missing?Needs to be $499 for the base. I agree with you. BUT, did anyone notice they have a DDR333 ram description when it is really PC 5300 running @ 667MHz? What a screwup. :eek:
Omni via Ramseeker.com (http://Ramseeker.com) has a pair of 1GB sticks for $174 instead of Apple's $225. Save $50 and have something to sell on eBay. - two 256 sticks. Wonder if anyone is buying those? Seems like so small.
I just don't get it when a imac is close in price with a monitor.
What am I missing?Needs to be $499 for the base. I agree with you. BUT, did anyone notice they have a DDR333 ram description when it is really PC 5300 running @ 667MHz? What a screwup. :eek:
Omni via Ramseeker.com (http://Ramseeker.com) has a pair of 1GB sticks for $174 instead of Apple's $225. Save $50 and have something to sell on eBay. - two 256 sticks. Wonder if anyone is buying those? Seems like so small.
(marc)
Mar 19, 05:18 PM
It's just the last time I remember a UN action it was 98% US in Iraq.
Not UN backed. afaik, at least.
Not UN backed. afaik, at least.
kadajawi
Sep 6, 10:13 AM
The 24" iMac can be upgraded to a 7600GT video card. Anyone know how decent that is? What about the x1600?
Somewhat decent, a bit faster than the 6600GT, less power consumption IIRC. Just look out for normal reviews in the PC territory, that should give you an idea. I think it would be a decent choice in a sub-$1000 computer... over that I'd be expecting something better. Still, the 6600GT which I have is pretty decent, can play most games at a good resolution and high quality settings.
I'm going to buy the basic Mini... the size makes the difference, since it's going to be used at different locations (every few months in a different country ;) ). A superdrive would be nice, but not neccessary.
Anyone knows if student discount and the "free printer" works with refurbs too?
Somewhat decent, a bit faster than the 6600GT, less power consumption IIRC. Just look out for normal reviews in the PC territory, that should give you an idea. I think it would be a decent choice in a sub-$1000 computer... over that I'd be expecting something better. Still, the 6600GT which I have is pretty decent, can play most games at a good resolution and high quality settings.
I'm going to buy the basic Mini... the size makes the difference, since it's going to be used at different locations (every few months in a different country ;) ). A superdrive would be nice, but not neccessary.
Anyone knows if student discount and the "free printer" works with refurbs too?
tablo13
Sep 14, 08:22 PM
I got the Belkin Grip Vue in the blue color at bestbuy. Really a toss up between the three colors IMO.
Looks pretty decent from the front, but the blue is a bit feminine.
Looks pretty decent from the front, but the blue is a bit feminine.
csimmons
Apr 3, 04:03 AM
It is, indeed, sad to see someone get so emotionally attached to a consumer product that they cannot admit to themselves that the product may have some flaws.
You obviously need to relax. There is more to life than iPad.
The only thing worse than trolls in threads like this are posters (like yourself) who suffer from Yogi Bear Syndrome.
To say that "virtually every" iPad 2 has a backlight problem simply makes you look like an idiot. There's no way you can know this, and basing your assumption on the number of posts in a forum - be it Apple's or someone else's - just make you look foolish, especially considering most forums are populated by just a few people. The reality is that 99% of iPad 2 users probably don't even know that there is an iPad forum on the internet!
Case in point: count the number of times YOU'VE posted your BS here, and the 9 or 10 people who bothered to answer you. That's already taken up more than 4 pages by itself. Case rested. :rolleyes:
You obviously need to relax. There is more to life than iPad.
The only thing worse than trolls in threads like this are posters (like yourself) who suffer from Yogi Bear Syndrome.
To say that "virtually every" iPad 2 has a backlight problem simply makes you look like an idiot. There's no way you can know this, and basing your assumption on the number of posts in a forum - be it Apple's or someone else's - just make you look foolish, especially considering most forums are populated by just a few people. The reality is that 99% of iPad 2 users probably don't even know that there is an iPad forum on the internet!
Case in point: count the number of times YOU'VE posted your BS here, and the 9 or 10 people who bothered to answer you. That's already taken up more than 4 pages by itself. Case rested. :rolleyes: